In my last blog I discussed proof of God in general. I did not specify any God in particular. So once you’ve established the existence of God, how do you go about choosing among the many gods available? Can God even be known? The short answer is, “only if He wants to be known”.
Consider that any Deity capable of creating the universe can certainly hide from us if He wants to. We can “search for God” diligently, but if He doesn’t want to be found, there is no finding him. My recommendation is that you scratch off your list any religion claiming to have found the way to God. If God can only be known if He wants to be, it makes more sense to look for where God has revealed Himself to man.
Take Jesus for example. He claimed to be God come to earth, backed it up with convincing Godlike character and miracles, even had men write down things about His life ahead of time so we’d know it was Him. Then He correctly identified that there was no way for us to reach God, explained how God would make a way from His end, and demonstrated unearthly love by suffering to become that way. Finally, rising from the dead and ascending into heaven visibly...no other religious figure even comes close to the Incomparable One. I guess the choice isn’t that difficult after all.
Seriously, no one comments on your blogs. Stumbled across your blog, interesting take on a God who would want to hide from their creation that it created. I wouldn't want to worship a god who only tries to reveal himself through text and stories, and if I don't bow down enough or pray enough, or just give the big man enough credit... I will go to hell forever... Sounds like hindu would be cooler religion, because I could at least come back as something else and not burn forever. Many people in life have been searching for something their whole lives. How can you let go of religions in general if Christianity is a Religion... I mean today people don't call themselves Christian without saying their part of some church that backs up their belief, because it agrees with their interpretation of the bible. When a little boy asks his father," Dad if we are christian, then why do people call themselves baptist,methodist,catholic, church of christ, pentacostal, non-denonminational with baptist beliefs, etc and so on...... ?" The innocents of a child can see through flaws of religion... I was in service one time and a little boy asked once during the offering... "Why is God so poor." "Why does he always need money." No one really knows what being christian is. If God knows what being christian is, then he is to busy hiding from us leaving us in the dark, but wait people claim he revealed it in a book of books please thats why their are so many religions based on those 66 books you call the word of god. You haven't proved anything... Prove God exist without spouting off scripture and how your 66 books tell one long story leading up to Jesus christ in perfect harmony, because man is very capable of creating a 100 books and telling a long story that leads up to a creator. Pretend I am unfortunate child in africa who can't read, and I am 8 years of age hearing God for the first time. Keep in mind I am a child soldier and I have already killed for food and survival, because that is my reality. Were is God? Hiding? How would you tell me a magic man in the sky loves me enough to send himself into a woman without love making, then to die on two pieces of lumber and kill himself reincarnated as himself 3 days later for all the world, but actually not really the world, because you have to believe the story to be saved. Giving credit where credit is due to go to paradise. The language barrier alone would stop your attempt without sounding like a religious nut. Also, here is a question. If you believe in the design theory. Watch maker makes a watch, painter makes a painting. Creator creates billions of stars and galaxies in 7 days.... Then who created God? you can't make an exception for God if your basing your whole argument on a contingent reality. Does God have book on his creator? If you can prove to me God exist without opening scripture i will become a believer. God has not revealed himself through creation... I don't see God was here written on the moon. LOL. Give me hard evidence God exists...
ReplyDeleteIt's difficult to respond to so many questions in a short blog, but I'll at least give you bullet point answers. You can email me at the COTR website for further dialogue, and I'd love to sit with you and provide more thorough answers.
ReplyDeleteGod didn't reveal himself only through stories, He came to earth (Jesus) to fully reveal himself.
While the hindu thing may be cooler, that only works out if it's true, which it isn't.
I don't suggest letting go of religions in general, just isolating the one that is true. Only one can be since they contradict each other.
Denominations are not many religions, but many expressions of one religion, Christianity. They agree remarkably well on the key issues, tending to differ on more peripheral points.
You can leave the scripture reference off the blog before this one, and it still proves the existence of a creator. Your alternative is to believe intelligence and complexity evolved randomly, which requires more faith.
While man has written hundreds of books about God, consider that the Bible is written over 1500 years by 40+ authors with complete consistency, historical and prophetic accuracy in the face of unprecedented scrutiny and attack. Sort of sets it apart.
There are dozens of missionaries God has sent to Africa currently giving their lives to reaching those child soldiers.
God is uncreated, transcendent, eternal. That's what makes Him the exception.
How do you explain the obvious complex design in creation without a designer? It's the fingerprint of God.
This is fine for now thank you. I am not really looking for answers, but rather proof. Many can give answers to complex questions and still be wrong. You have quoted what I have heard before from other preachers that the bible is 1500 years old by 40 plus authors with complete consistency. It sounds like a religious text book answer to those who question the consistency of the Bible. Sorry, but this can be debunked, if you take the all of the bible literally..
ReplyDeleteA good man leaveth an inheritance to his children's children...
- Proverbs 13:22
Sell that ye have and give alms...
- Luke 12:33
Blessed is the man that feareth the Lord... Wealth and riches
shall be in his house...
- Psalms 112:1-3
It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than
for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.
- Matthew 19:24
I and my father are one.
- John 10:30
... I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
- John 14:28
For by grace are ye saved through faith... not of works.
- Ephesians 2:8-9
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by
faith only.
- James 2:24
Honor thy father and mother.
- Exodus 20:12
If any man come to me, and hate not his father and mother, and
wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own
life also, he cannot be my disciple.
- Luke 14:26
I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
- Genesis 32:30
No man hath seen God at any time.
And it was in the third hour, and they crucified him.
- Mark 25:3-4
And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour; and he saith unto the Jews, behold your king... Shall I crucify your king?
- John 19:14-15
- John 1:18
You said the bible has "complete consistency"... I beg to differ, not to argue and say your wrong... But what exactly do you mean consistency... I can quote 100's more contradictions in the bible, which is proof of your statement being wrong. I am asking for proof that their is a creator, and the bible is his word..., and obviously I can't use the bible as a bases for proof it's not consistent in it's own writing and Stories like NOAH and the ARK are scientifically impossible. I can prove it.
Think about this way... If you were a car salesmen trying to sale me on a car. I came by your office because I saw your great deal in the paper. I asked to see your vehicle. In the paper you have listed the details of the car... A cool awesome ford explorer 2011 perfect condition for 6,000 dollars... I AM EXCITED,because the vehicle is going to meet all my needs and make me very happy, but i still want to see it and test drive it. I come to your office sit down across from you and discuss your special offer. I ask to see you vehicle. You then bring out a bunch of documents set them on the table, and ask me to start signing some papers...because I am going to love my candy red new FORD explorer. These documents contain some information, and history about the vehicle. You say, "the car is in great shape here is the historical documents to prove it's in shape".. I say," but I still want to see the vehicle"... you persist and go on and try to have me sign some papers. Any normal person would leave at this point. I say I want to test drive it before i commit to it. Once again you throw the claimed historical evidence of different documents about the vehicle. I begin to get upset because you want me to sign papers before the test drive... obviously this wouldn't happen at a real dealership. I begin to doubt your deal in disbelief about your special, and you get upset in a irrational tone, " BUT HERE IS THE HISTORICAL DOCUMENTS THE VEHICLE IS IN GOOD SHAPE, AND I HAVE PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WITH THIS VEHICLE.. Another co-worker comes by and asks whats wrong? You tell him THIS PERSON does not believe we have a special. The other co-worker laughs and says, " Yes we do silly" goes to his desk pulls out the same historical documents lays the on the table. He says your going to enjoy your COOL new white swede ford 2011 vehicle. I say,"hold up I thought it was a candy red 2011 explorer whats going on here. You now say to your co-worker that the he is wrong and he is mis-intepreting the ad, because obviously the word "COOL" is taken out of context, which means it's red candy color, because red candy is COOL.. Your co-worker begins to argue with you about the documents and the ad about the vehicle.
ReplyDeleteThe point I am trying to make sir... Is show me proof. Why should I give up my only life for your religion of different interpretations expressions and study with you in depth. God won't feed my family for studying with you, praying with you, Would you pay me to work with you and understand your ways and your beliefs.. I think not you would want to take my hard earn cash so you can sustain your life-style and pay bills for your nice church. I would gladly follow, but show me hard evidence.
ReplyDeleteI don't think catholic religion is just a show of expression of worshiping God then a Baptist expression. They both would tell one another they're wrong. Besides Catholics believe Mary has power and hold to relics and motions of tradition, and the rap little boys. Baptist use hell fire and fear to spread the word, and they don't believe in original sin like catholics... oh and the other books outside the 66 books of the bible called the apocryha books most other christian religions don't know they exist... They are different institutions of a mono-theistic religion. Please forgive me, try to see why I have a hard time believing...
Let me finish the STORY...
ReplyDeleteI stop the argument and say," I don't believe both of you, because you can't even agree on which color the vehicle is." "I over heard another customer and salesmen conversation that the special is not even a FORD explorer." I just want see the vehicle you said you have, which is a candy red ford explorer 2011 for 6,000. You guys here can't even agree on the interpretation of your own documents. You say, sure just sign the documents!! Hand over the 6,000, and when enough time comes by the car will come out of hiding and slowly reveal itself to you. I call you crazy, and when I begin to leave. You threaten me with," if i don't buy the vehicle, I will burn forever and ever".... Are you threatening me.. No but the documents say if you don't believe me you will burn, but you have a choice you have free will. I say, "that's not free will your trying to scare me in buying your vehicle...The co-worker you argued with, says that I don't have free will and the vehicle already choose me out of the of a few. I am here because the car choose for me to come. Even if I buy the vehicle I won't know If i am part of the elect or few not to burn forever and ever. I ask your co-worker well what if he doesn't it buy the vehicle. He says i am saved already the vehicle spoke to me personally and i know in my heart i won't burn because I am the vehicles elect.. I say "how do you know your human like me with no special abilities." Well maybe special mentally!!! besides vehicles can't talk. Another co-worker comes by with a set of different documents of historical facts and says," this proves the special exists"!!!.... You say, "where did you come from?" He replied, I came from the eastern side of the building...He begins to say to me, "All you have to do is bow down 5 times a day and abstain from certain meats." If you don't sign the documents you won't get your 75 virgins with your vehicle.
I think I understand where you're coming from. I'm very analytical myself. But we're not going to agree on several of your premises.
ReplyDeleteEach of the inconsistencies you listed are easily explained. I've seen much more difficult ones, also answerable. Not only is the great flood scientifically possible, there is much scientific evidence to support it. Too much to go into here, but the bible has been attacked for hundreds of years and never once been proven inconsistent or inaccurate.
I cannot prove the Bible is the word of God or that Jesus is God, but the evidence is compelling. This blog was a follow up to "prove It" posted 7/29, in which I suggested a creator (intelligent design) can be proven.
And yes, the catholic vs. protestant thing is more complex, but there is agreement on the deity of Jesus revealed in the Bible (7 apocryphal books aside).
I appreciate all the thought you've put in to this, and would enjoy talking with you. But that not being possible, I'll leave you with two recommendations. First, I found the book "More than a Carpenter" by Josh McDowell very helpful when I was where you are. Second, and most important, ask Jesus to reveal Himself to you.
At the end of the day the religious arguments don't really matter, it all hangs on Jesus. Either He is who He says He is, or He isn't.
Pastor Tony
Great!!! much evidence to support a FLOOD happen... which would prove the world is about 10,000 years old and all the stars and galaxies in it. You said there is great deal of evidence; therefore, types of proof. Please show me this evidence this proof. Here is more evidence of the inconsistencies of the bible. Should I keep going
ReplyDeleteCursed is he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of his mother.
- Deuteronomy 27:22
And Abraham said... She is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.
- Genesis 20:11,12
If brethren dwell together, and one of them die and have no child, the wife of the dead shall not marry without unto a stranger; her husband's brother shall go in unto her, and take her to him to wife.
- Deuteronomy 25:5
If a man shall take his brother's wife, it is an unclean thing... they shall be childless.
- Leviticus 20:21
He that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness.
- Mark 3:29
And by him that believe are justified from all things.
- Acts 13:39
[John the Baptist] is Elias which was for to come.
- Matthew 11:14
And they asked him, what then? Art thou [John the Baptist] Elias? And he saith, I am not.
- John 1:21
Now, after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee,
preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God.
- Mark 1:14
After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judea... and John was also baptizing Enon... for John was not yet cast into prison.
- John 3:22-24
Your right Religious arguments don't matter, TRUTH DOES. Jesus claims to be TRUTH speaking pontius, but so does Allah, So does a BRAMAN, So did the Romans who stole their gods and goddess from the greeks. You tell me you can't prove God exists, and if your talking about JESUS HE IS GOD, They are one in the same remember. God magically put himself in to mary so he can be born to die for himself on the two pieces of wood. The Trinity is one and the same. So if your talking about JESUS your talking about GOD. IF you have evidence that is "compelling" for one part of the bible for Jesus to exist, then your saying God exist. But you just told me you could not prove. Evidence is proof. Show me this compelling evidence. I would love to spend time with you. IF your going to pay for the road trips and science experiments that conclude the compelling evidence, I am open. Set a time and date. Please don't take me to a park where they have men riding on the backs of DINOSAURS and call it science. Although my 19 month old daughter would have fun.
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned."
ReplyDeleteSo i ask Jesus to reveal himself to me...I am gonna wait for his loud audible that can be recorded in reality about how he died for me on the cross.
I rather you show me with your two hands the compelling evidence about the Biblical flood. Besides,"Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer."
Please answer these questions sincerely..... THANK YOU
ReplyDelete1)What religion do you follow?
2) Why do you follow the teaching of that religion?
3) Is that not because your father, mother, or country of birth is of that religion?
4) Have you studied other religions to know that is not the same word of god or does your religion in fact make more sense to you?
5) Can you honestly say if you were raised on the other side of the world you would have the exact same beliefs or would you hate your current self as many people do on opposite side?
6) If there is only one word of god within your religion how do you explain the different variations of it from that single book?
7) Given another 2 thousand years don't you think there would be other variations on top of what we have today?
8) Wouldn't that be proof that people mold teaching to benefit their own cause or beliefs?
9) If god said to believe in him and follow all these rules otherwise you go to hell, what about people in remote places of the world who haven't heard this message (amazon rain forest for example). Do these people automatically go to hell?
10) If given above shouldn't we be born with belief in god?
11) If when good people die why are we sad if we know they are going to heaven. If you truly believe this is a test why not spend your lifetime giving to the poor if the reward is eternity in paradise? Is it because you have some doubt or is it too hard to follow everything that god wants you to do?
12)If you didn't conform to modern society, and lived like the apostles without a place of residence... pretty much a nomad like Jesus.. All you had was your bible. Could you be as successful like you are today with reaching souls? Do you think people would take you seriously? You have the same mind and wisdom, but you decide to really be like JESUS. All you do was travel and preach the word minus the feeding of the 5,000. Stayed at other peoples homes once in awhile, Sorry mooched at other people's homes. I don't think you can live with out your cell phone. Infact, I bet you would have a hard time using your a phone that you grew up with to keep up with the evolving pace of civilization. People like text today... IT"S THE THING TO DO. Enjoy your I PAD :) Good day and please answer all these questions. Thank you Convincing your fellow athiest.
Thanks for your comments, but this doesn't seem to be getting anywhere. I wish you well.
ReplyDeletePastor Tony
Pastor Tony your not going to try to help? Your just going to preach the word and move on? If anyone has serious questions like I do... Your not going to help? Why would you wish me well? You should pray for my return to Jesus. Christians should not wish anyone well on this earth, but to suffer and come to the conclusion that God is well GOD. If you feel that my questions are challenging, then just say so.. Otherwise let's converse and talk.
ReplyDeletePlease answer my questions. Prove to me God exists, HARD evidence that YOU SAY the flood happen. YOU PROVE it to me. Or point me in the right direction that certified scientists can prove the flood happen. I Will be a believer if you can show me ONE piece of evidence.
I don't mind answering your questions, but this blog isn't the format for such a detailed response. You can still contact me by email or phone through our website if you really want answers.
ReplyDeletePastor Tony
How is a blog "really not a place for a detail discussion?" It is a form of text and communication through the internet. There is a section below COMMENTS. All of the avenues of sending communication allows you to be as detailed as you want. I think, because this is a public blog people will judge your response back to me. It wouldn't matter... I just post your answers to me on this blog in the comments. For now I would like to communicate through your blog. So please give a reason of the hope that is within you. I hope my last sentence was detailed enough for you.... just in case you were not clear about it. I don't mean to be rude, but if you and every other religion are going to PUSH god on me and jesus to go out in the world as the great commission... I am giving you a chance now to make first impressions on why I need to give god credit for making everything in the universe. OH yeah and he allowed Holy incest to happen as part of his big plan with LOT and his daughters, but you don't teach that to your children.
ReplyDeleteI always wonder why people get so riled up about God if He isn't real? If you truly believe God is not God...then why is this such a problem? I am not worried about things I know are not real or true.
ReplyDelete